It’s been a while, and this episode is probably the most honest conversation we’ve ever recorded.

We talk about Shane’s decision to quit his job, my breaking point, the lowest points in our marriage, and how we’ve slowly started finding our way back. We also get into going viral, being interviewed by The New York Times, depression, starting ketamine therapy, and what it’s been like to completely exchange roles as partners.

The last two years have changed us in ways we never expected. After 25 years of marriage, we’ve realized that growth means letting go of old versions of yourself, and that includes this podcast.

It won’t be the same podcast we left behind. We aren’t the same people.

Hope you’ll come along for what’s next.